Justice and I recently had the incredible opportunity to sit down with iconic Canadian activist Cindy Blackstock, the Executive Director of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Societyand professor at McGill University.
Cindy has over 30 years of experience working in child welfare and Indigenous children’s rights and has published on topics relating to reconciliation, Indigenous theory, First Nations child welfare and human rights.
In our interview we spoke about her approach to creating a better future for First Nations children, building a movement and the importance of teaching changemaking and tolerance in preschool. Keep reading for more of our conversation with Cindy and ways to support her work with the Caring Society.
Justice:
Cindy, your vision is clear – to take action to bring equal funding, support, and resources to all Canadian children. What is your approach to demanding attention, accountability for people, a community and cause that have been systemically overlooked and oppressed by the institution from which you are seeking accountability from?
Cindy:
That’s a really good question. In our situation, the federal government funds public services for First Nations, children, youth and families and has done so at far lesser levels than every other person in Canada since Confederation. And the question is how to fix that. When we took a really good look at the historical documents, it was clear that Canada has known for over a century that they are underfunding. And that the underfunding of public services is linked to the harms and the deaths of children. They’ve chosen not to do it. That finding made us look with refreshed eyes at how we compel a government to make a different choice.
It was clear to us that we needed to understand, that governments don’t create change in these types of situations, they respond to change. That meant that our conversation was not going to be so much with the government anymore, it had to be with Canadians at large. And so that challenged us to be able to describe this problem, but also more importantly, describe the solution and how they could be involved in it.
The second piece is to actually have the moral courage to file litigation against Canada to hold the government accountable. And as an organization to take whatever came with that, including a 100% funding cut by the federal government. I’ve always said it throughout this case, even if the Caring Society went down, every child is far more important than this organization. And I want them to know that we’re going to stand with them.
So it was the litigation and reaching out and understanding that when people actually knew about this stuff, they were appalled, regardless of their political persuasion. They were willing to understand that, in this scenario, where it’s a government issuing apartheid public services, they have to be the target of the advocacy. So yes, you have to be political. But the key is not to be partisan.
Justice:
I really appreciate the observation and commitment to moral courage. It is especially important when tackling deep systemic issues. How do you identify interventions that unlock systemic solutions to systemic challenges?
Cindy:
I think sometimes we mistake symptoms for problems. As we sit here, First Nations children are 17x more likely to be in foster care than other kids. You could say that’s the problem, but actually, that’s a symptom. When we peel it back, it says inequalities and services, the multi-generational trauma from residential schools, and other inequalities that kids deal with on reserve. So things like poor housing, lack of water, all of that is the problem, the inequality is the problem, the trauma is the problem. So let’s develop an intervention at the level of that problem. You also need to be clear about where you want to go. What is the causal problem and really fashion an evidence-based solution around that causal problem and hold yourself accountable for doing right versus being right. You have to be accountable to the evidence and welcome different points of view in dissenting opinion, because your goal is to do right and not be right. And that is a very fine difference in effective advocacy.
Justice:
Cindy, part of your advocacy work focuses on patient network building, and that involves bringing Indigenous and non-Indigenous populations into conversation with each other. Based on this, what does allyship mean to you?
Cindy:
For me, one of the key things that I’ve had to appreciate is that really part of the way that systemic discrimination unfolds is that there is propaganda on both sides. And it really is about understanding how do we say our message in a way that other people can see past those stereotypes and past that misinformation? What we want to do is frame our message. We actually say to each other, I believe in the goodness of you. And here is the issue. And you wouldn’t want to be treated as if you’re worth less money just because of who you are. And you wouldn’t want to see anyone else do this. But the good news is, here’s something you could do. And it’s free, it doesn’t take very much time. And if this is the only thing you’re able to do, well, thank you for doing that. But if you can do more, that’s great.
And I think one of the things we have to do is get people past that threshold because listening is not the opposite of talking. It’s the opposite of waiting to talk. We have to pierce through that waiting to talk because that’s where the stereotypes and discrimination live. We try get through that with our framing, and then give people an opportunity to understand what’s happening and how to make a difference.
Justice:
What does the dynamic look like between balancing confrontation and then that conversation and then moving towards action?
Cindy:
I’m a big believer in starting right, from daycare. Like we work with kids, right? And it’s much easier, because I really believe that children of all diversities are experts in love and fairness. And so if we can nurture that in them, and nurture the sense of citizenship and real agency about how you make change, even as a five year old, you can write a letter, or draw a picture to the Prime Minister about the type of world you want are your fellow human beings do exist. And then we’re dealing with a different, very different population. But, there’s a certain percentage for whom their views will not change. I think the key piece is to really calibrate whether that person is willing to learn or not. And I’ve been a facilitator in some of these conversations where it’s clear to me that the person is unable to participate, and I will just simply say that this is not the space for that kind of commentary. And it’s time for you to go.
Nia:
Yes, I think knowing when to say that is so important. Because you will burn yourself out trying to speak to people who just aren’t ready or not in the right place to be able to receive what we’re saying.
Cindy:
Right? And you always say to those folks, you know when you’re ready to share and have a conversation about this, we’ll be here for you. We’re not waiting for you.
Nia:
I know you’ve said in the past that the process is as important as the results. Why is that the case?
Cindy:
I go back to this piece about how do you really achieve a world where the right to be human, and the dignity of difference is honoured and celebrated. And that’s not just in the outcome, it has to be modeled in the way that you actually conduct the movement. Because what you’re doing is you’re creating places for learning and recalibration back to those basic good human instincts that all of us are born with.
So really make sure that your process becomes an outcome and make it fun along the way. We have this thing called Bear Witness Day that’s coming up on May 10. To honour Jordan’s Principle and children are invited to have teddy bear tea parties because teddy bears were Jordan’s favorite toy. So participants educate the other kids in their community, their parents and grandparents and neighbors about Jordan’s Principle while having a teddy bear tea party. For honoring the children in the unmarked graves and the survivors of residential schools, we have Honouring Memories, Planting Dreams where you plant a garden. And in your planting of the garden, you’re remembering these children and committing to learn from the past. In growing the flowers, that’s your symbol of what Truth and Reconciliation Commission call to action you and your family are going to adopt and be committed to as a flower grows. There are many wonderful ways to create change and I feel very strongly that it needs to take the mind, the heart, but also the body. The act of doing something really creates memory and it creates a relationship.
Nia:
Cindy, what has you hopeful for the future of young people?
Cindy:
Yeah, what has me really hopeful is that I think that as the world becomes more technologically focused on technology, we have to make an equal rise in our human acuity. We have to recalibrate back to what is the type of world that we actually want to live in? And what are the values and the belief systems that help us get there?
I’m a big believer in not overcoming difference. I reject that concept. I think we have to celebrate difference. It’s also about understanding that when we stand up for human rights, we need to make sure that we’re standing up for that value of human rights for everyone around the globe. And in fact, by doing that we augment our own movement. It’s not a competition. So I think involving young people in these conversations, but doing so actually when they’re children. We need to get into those daycare centers. And then really trust children, young people with the truth and really empower them with peaceful and respectful and dignified tools to make a change in the world.
Nia:
We have been so inspired by you and your leadership. We would love to hear what’s next for your work, and how others can support all of the incredible things that you’re doing.
Cindy:
Well, thank you. I mean, we have seven free ways to make a difference on our website. One of the big pieces that we’re working on is you’ve heard about the $40 billion, the federal government announced as a result of this litigation and social movement, but they haven’t spent a penny of that. I’ve always measured change at the level of the children, not at the level of announcements. So we want to make sure they fulfill that commitment. And we will.
There are also other inequalities to tackle. It is 2022 and we have First Nations children who can’t get clean water. There’s no excuse for that. So, we have something called the Spirit Bear Plan. You can send a copy to your Member of Parliament and hold a copy during the next election so when whomever comes to your door, you can ask “What have you personally done to implement this?” Don’t ask them if they know about it, ask “What they personally done to implement it?” If they don’t haven’t done anything, they don’t get your vote. Simple as that.
I am also really interested in working on the whole question of thought control, and its overlays with colonialism and discrimination. This really cuts rise from that terrible convoy that was in town and its anti-Semitic and racist underpinnings. We need to understand social psychology on a broad level, so that we’re actually really preserving the right of critical thought and free thinking for individuals, and anchoring them in those best of human values, and safeguarding against this group think that can do what Lincoln called the “Wolf’s Dictionary” by taking these human values, like freedom and recast them in a way that feels legitimate, but is actually a violation of human rights and human dignity. So those are some of the things I’m working on right now.
Justice:
Wow. Well, that’s amazing. Thank you, Cindy for taking the time to sit down with us and share these fascinating learnings and reflections. We are so grateful for your leadership and encourage the Révolutionnaire Community to learn more about the incredible work of the Caring Society.
